Breathwork Magic
Welcome to Breathwork Magic, a podcast dedicated to exploring the life-changing power of Breathwork. Discover how conscious breathing can unlock inner peace, resilience, and clarity as we dive into inspiring stories and practical insights. Whether you’re new to Breathwork or looking to deepen your practice, each episode offers wisdom to help you connect more fully with yourself and the world around you.
Breathwork Magic
From Mob Attorney to Mindful Mentor: Bob Martin's Journey Through Meditation and Transformation
What happens when a former mob attorney discovers the transformative power of meditation?
In this transformative episode of Breathwork Magic, Amanda Russo sits down with Bob Martin, a former mob attorney turned certified meditation teacher, to explore the incredible shifts that can come from mindfulness, breathwork, and a commitment to personal growth. Bob shares his fascinating journey—from the high-stakes world of Miami's legal system during the "Cocaine Cowboy" era to studying Taoist philosophy and eventually becoming a meditation coach.
Discover how breathwork and mindfulness helped Bob transform his life, find inner peace, and cultivate compassion—skills that now guide his students. This episode is full of wisdom, actionable practices, and stories that will inspire you to pause, breathe, and reconnect with yourself. Whether you're new to meditation or looking to deepen your practice, this conversation will leave you with plenty to reflect on.
Episode Highlights
[1:22] – Amanda introduces Bob Martin, his unexpected career path, and his journey from being a mob lawyer to embracing meditation.
[4:17] – Bob recalls his time as a prosecutor in Miami during the chaotic "Cocaine Cowboy" era.
[6:32] – A life-changing moment with a therapist leads Bob to discover Taoism and its transformative practices.
[9:31] – Bob explains the Taoist philosophy of going with the flow and aligning with the natural rhythms of life.
[15:33] – How breathwork and Tai Chi taught Bob to find balance, both in his personal and professional life.
[22:12] – Why meditation is about noticing, not emptying your mind—and how this shift can change your relationship with your thoughts.
[50:40] – Bob shares the practice of Tonglen, a meditation technique that cultivates compassion and emotional resilience.
[1:02:43] – The importance of a consistent meditation practice and how Bob uses Duke University's meditation tools to coach his students effectively.
To Connect with Amanda Russo:
~ linktree.com/thebreathinggoddess
~ Instagram: @thebreathinggoddess
To Connect with Bob:
~ Visit Bob Martin's website: A Wise and Happy Life
~ Download Bob's FREE Meditation E-Book HERE
Closing Reminder
Thank you for tuning into Breathwork Magic! If this episode resonated with you, please share it with a friend, leave a review, or give us a five-star rating. Let’s spread the power of breathwork and mindfulness far and wide! Remember, every breath is an opportunity to begin again.
Welcome to Breathwork Magic, the podcast that explores the life-changing power of your breath. Breathwork isn't just a practice. It's a gateway to healing, transformation and shifting to a new mindset, by letting go of the past and embracing the possibilities of the present moment. And embracing the possibilities of the present moment I'm Amanda Russo, your host, a certified breathwork facilitator, level two Reiki practitioner and creator of the Mander's Mindset podcast. On my own journey, breathwork has been a powerful tool for releasing what no longer serves me and shifting my perspective to step into my fullest and greatest potential. Each week, I'm joined by inspiring guests, blood work facilitators, healers and wellness enthusiasts who share how this practice has helped them and their clients heal, grow and embrace lasting change. So take a deep breath in and out, settle in and let's explore the magic of your breath together.
Speaker 1:The transformation starts now. Welcome back to Breathwork Magic. As always, I'm your host, amanda Russo, and I am here today with Bob Martin, and I am so excited to delve down his journey. A former mob attorney and a certified meditation teacher. I am so excited to chat about both of that. Thank you.
Speaker 2:Oh, amanda, thanks for having me on your show, thanks for all the good work that you do. Just putting a platform like this together and all of the work that it entails and what are you doing for it's an act of love so people like me can come on and share a little bit with folks. It's just really sweet what you do, so thank you.
Speaker 1:Thank you, I appreciate that. So I am so curious how you got into meditation, especially being a lawyer. Not a lot of attorneys especially the paralegal in me knows this are very tapped in, tapped into their I don't even know what word I want to say, but tapped into their mind, tapped into Heart, yeah, their heart, Even as we were talking off air like they're not that tapped into their heart, or even their soul. Honestly, I think it's the word.
Speaker 2:I'm looking for.
Speaker 1:How did you discover meditation?
Speaker 2:So you know, in some ways my story is very common. Of course, the particular facts of my story are just like everyone, they're unique. Everybody's story is one of a kind, but how I got into it was really kind of common. Like so many folks, things weren't going well in my life and things were kind of getting out of control, and I was seeing somebody and I was reaching out for help, and it just so happens that the person that came along and came into my life at that time was a person who started me out on a path that changed my life.
Speaker 2:So they introduced you to meditation reduced you to meditation, not immediately, so to tell you what happened. So here I am, I'm in Miami. It's the cocaine cowboy days, it's the days of the movie Scarface and the days of Miami Vice. You know those days and I will tell you that, having lived in Miami during that period of time. You that, having lived in Miami during that period of time, the vibe that you see in the movie Scarface and that you saw on Miami Vice, that was Miami. That accurately portrayed the vibe Of course not the particular facts. That's how stuff was.
Speaker 2:And I started out as a prosecutor. I worked for Janet Reno in the Miami-Dade County DA's office. I mean that was a big office. We had 214 assistant DAs in that office. Yeah, there were 14 felony courts going all day, every day, and 32 misdemeanor courts. So that was a big system. And I worked in that office and I hung my shingle out. And it turned out that while I was working for Janet Reno we hit the mob up for a lot of money and we did a good job going after them. And when I went out in private practice they kind of came to me and said you're pretty good, we want to start sending you some clients. And so I started hanging out with those guys.
Speaker 2:But, like I said, things were kind of going topsy-turvy for me. My wife was an alcoholic, her parents were alcoholics. Things were falling apart. Personally, for me, I've seen a therapist and one day I came to a really important decision, a really important crossroads, and I said to my therapist his name was George. I said, hey, george, you know, should I go right here or should I go left? Should I do this or should I do that? And rather than you know, giving me some nice therapeutic well, how do you feel about it, bob? And that kind of stuff, rather than that, the guy pulls out some coins and starts throwing them on the table. He's shaking his hand, dropping the coins, adding up some numbers, drawing lines and doing all this stuff. And I'm looking at him like what is this? Tarot cards. I'm here with my therapist, you know, and he's throwing coins on the table. What's going on here? But finally he comes up with the number and he opens a book up to that number, that chapter, and the name of the chapter was Retreat. And so I said, wtf, you know what's going on here. And cursed him out and left.
Speaker 2:But it was like that word just got tattooed on my head retreat and so I started pulling back from some of those excessive behaviors that I was engaged in. Now I'd made a lot of money. I've got to say, miami was very, very good to me and being a mob lawyer was very, very good. I got a lot of money, a lot of cash, but you know, I was being excessive. I started pulling back from some of that and then I came to them and I, you know, with my tail between my legs, I went back to them. I said hey, george, what was that? What was that with the coins? What was that thing you did? He goes oh well, that was just the I Ching, or the I Ching as you pronounce it. I said what's that? He goes it's a Taoist practice. I go well, what's Taoism? So he started to explain to me what it was. Now, for those of you who don't know much about Taoism, I'm sure you've heard of Kung Fu, it's heard of Tai, the Shaolin Temple. Well, that's all Taoism. And it turns out that my therapist was a student disciple, and the English language editor of Master Watching Me, who dig this, was a 72nd generation. Just think about that. I figured it out. It's like 1,400 years of passing wisdom down from father to son, over 1,400 years. So he's a Shaolin priest, master priest from the Shaolin temple, and so I'm curious about it.
Speaker 2:The next week he came to Miami, master Nidid, and I tell you I'm sure, amanda, you run into some people in your life that when you meet them you just go oh wow, I want to know what this guy knows. You just meet them and you know it. They got an energy about them and that was Master Nee. He was just an amazing human being. So I didn't grow up with any kind of religion at all. My folks were Eastern European immigrants. All of their ancestors got wiped out by either the Bolsheviks or the Nazis and the like, and so we didn't have any religion in my home. So this was the first time somebody came to me and said oh hey, here's an owner's manual for how to live life. And I just thought this is really great.
Speaker 2:And I learned so much from Master Nee and from the study of the old Taoist books. And like one day, one time we asked Master Nee, you know what they call you, master Nee? What's the master all about? Why do they call you master? You know? And he goes well, it's because I have mastered life and you go okay. So what's that mean? What does that look like? And he goes.
Speaker 2:Mastering life is when you can interfere with things the littlest amount possible, you have the smallest interference with the things around you and you use the least energy, but you have the most impact and you are the most effective and efficient with the least energy. When you can accomplish that, you've mastered life. Go, okay. Well, I said that sounds great if you can live in a temple. You know in a temple, you know in a monastery, you know, and and figure it out, you know your whole life. But what about you know, as he says? Well, you know, you can take a couple of steps in that direction.
Speaker 2:So we studied under master knee and I studied the old Taoist texts and practiced the Taoist practices, the kung fu Fu, the Tai Chi, the Qigong, the I Ching, all these things. And I studied with him and George in a little Taoist group for eight years. And it changed my life, because before that I was arrogant, I was full of myself, I was the cat's pajamas, I was the best there was and I was kind of walking on top of the world. I was making a lot of money. I was respected by my profession, you know, by every manner and every measurement. You would call me a success, except that my private life, internally, you know I was a mess. And so by the time, you know, I started to get a little bit of feeling of what Mr Nee was trying to teach us just about.
Speaker 2:Then, well, let's just say I ran into a little difference of opinion with my mob clients about how something would be handled, Because up to then I had a deal with them. I said look, you want a lawyer that is respected by the courts and that has credibility. So I'm not going to do anything illegal, I won't do anything unethical, but that's in your best interest. So it works out win-win for everybody. And it was good up until this kid got arrested. Once this kid got arrested, then it was all you know, deal was off. You are going to create some evidence, you are going to coach witnesses, you are going to do this and I go. Well, I am not going to do that. So, long story short, I wound up saying I'm going to move to North Carolina. So I left Miami. We shook hands, you know. He said sometimes a man just has to move on. We shook hands, hearted friends, never heard from them again.
Speaker 2:And I got to North Carolina and, amanda, you're a paralegal, so you know what the profession's like. Imagine you go from one system where you're doing homicides and the major drug trafficking cases and doing all that kind of stuff and the next thing you know you're in a small town in a little corner office where there's three DAs and you're trying cases. You go to trial on cases called taking antlerless deer taking antlerless deer. So yeah, yes, yes, you're right, it is a crime to kill a deer that doesn't have antlers. So it was a bit of a culture shock.
Speaker 2:I got to North Carolina. I had this beautiful opportunity of having this blank canvas. You know, all of a sudden, my whole past and all that stuff. You know all that high rolling chrome and glass, miami discotheque stuff. You know I could leave it all behind. I had a canvas I could paint a completely new world on.
Speaker 2:So because I wasn't the same person then that I was when I started, I just decided that what I wanted to do was devote myself to public service and taking care of what Jesus Christ would call the least of these folks, the people that needed help that couldn't afford it. So I went back to school, got a master's in social work and about that time I was introduced to meditation. Taoism is more contemplation and more moving practice like Tai Chi and Kung Fu. Meditation is way much more. Buddhism is much more in your head. So I started going to Buddhist temples and then doing a lot of breath work there and learning meditation. And then one day this group reached out to me and they said we would like you to come and undergo this very rigorous two-year process of becoming a meditation teacher. And I don't know if you've ever heard the names Jack Kornfields in Salzburg, but these were my teachers Amazing group of folks. And so studied for two years and I was certified as a meditation teacher.
Speaker 1:So it wasn't until after the Taoism and after all that that you went down the meditation route.
Speaker 2:That's correct. It was just a pack that I started walking on, and that's where it led.
Speaker 1:So now I'm curious when you were actively practicing in Miami, did you have any type of meditation, mindfulness, breathing practice?
Speaker 2:Well, like I say, during the last five, six years that I was in Miami, I was involved in my Taoist group and so, yeah, we do a lot of breath work there, kung you know, in Kung Fu and Tai Chi. Can I diverge for a second? Say a little bit about Taoism.
Speaker 1:Yeah, absolutely.
Speaker 2:So you're familiar with the symbol, the round symbol, and the black and the white and the white dot and the black and the black dot and the white. So that symbol is called the Tai Chi and what it symbolized. The dark side is the feminine energy, that's the yin energy, and the white side is the yang or the male energy. But you notice that the yin energy, the female energy, it has a dot of yang in it, the white energy. Well, in the symbol that's not a dot, that's a seed. And see, that seed is going to grow and it's going to take over, and so the yin is going to be taken over by the yang and the yang is going to be taken over by the yin, by the yang, and the yang is going to be taken over by the yin. So that symbol means that everything in life has a natural rhythm and cycle Day turns to night, night turns to day, winter turns to summer. But what Taoism teaches us that we don't normally pick up on from that simple idea of the natural cycles is that good times and bad times also cycle through our lives. So you know, so good times, and you know chipmunks are smart. You know because when they got a lot of acorns around. They store a bunch, right? And human beings aren't always that smart, because when everything's going good for us, we go out and we splurge a lot. We don't put a lot of stuff in the bank sometimes, so we're not ready for when the times change and things get worse, which they will do. So if we're smart like a chipmunk, when things are really good, we will use some of our energy to store things and prepare for when things go down and when things are really bad. Well, you know, we know that things are going to cycle and they're going to get better. So we don't freak out and we don't panic. We just simply, you know, lay back, conserve our energy and have patience and wait. So it's kind of like an example might be in the normal course of events.
Speaker 2:All of a sudden, you know you're thinking, come up with this great idea, this wonderful, cool idea, and you think it's a great idea and you want to share it with all your friends, right? And all they want to think about, you know, like, is where they're going next Friday night and they don't want to listen to your idea, right? So that would be a there's a certain energy in that situation, like you're all huffed up with energy and you want to share it, but they're not in a place where they want to hear it. Okay, so if you're being a good Taoist, you would recognize that they're not listening now and you would kind of darken your light and calm down and hold back and maybe start thinking about what you wanted to say and maybe refine your thoughts a little bit, because you know that the time's going to change and eventually they're going to turn to you and say now what was that you wanted to tell me? And then you should be really prepared. So you're not trying to force the situation when it's not open to you and you use the time to prepare for when it is open to you. You're being much more efficient and much more effective. You're using less energy and having more impact. And so that's what Master Nee was talking about.
Speaker 2:He says if you can recognize the flow that's around you and you can go with the flow, which sometimes means punching through and sometimes means holding back, and sometimes it means progressing and sometimes it means retrieving, and sometimes it means thinking, and sometimes it means preparing and sometimes it means activating, sometimes it means community, sometimes it means community, sometimes it means solitary. But if you can recognize the flow and then align yourself with it, just like if you're out in the ocean and you recognize that the tide's going in and it's coming out, when it's going in, you swim like heck, and when it's going out, you just hold your spot, you move forward, you hold your spot, you move forward, you hold your spot, you move forward, you hold your spot, you move forward, you hold your spot. And when you come in you've used the littlest amount of energy and got into shore the most effective and efficient way possible. And what Master Ni says is that you can live your whole life like that. You can live your whole life, everything about it. You can be completely responsive, very efficient, use very little energy, be very matter of learning how to go with the flow. So when you see somebody practicing Tai Chi, you know how you see them go forward and come back.
Speaker 2:That is a physical expression of the way that things cycle in the universe. Sometimes you move forward, sometimes you move back. You're kind of adjusting to the flow of the energy around you. And the breath is so important there because you know you want to tie your breath in with the fact that you know, as you're going forward, you're going forward, you're exhaling. As you're coming back, you're inhaling, which means that you're taking in the energy of the world and you're holding it, and then, when you're ready to go forward, you're expending the energy of the world, and so you begin to feel and sense that give and take that is around us in life and that so much is what our breathing is. I mean, a breathing is the very definition of give and take. Yes, you're the breath work expert. Right, I look at it.
Speaker 1:I like that example a lot. That makes a lot of sense, you know, because I think all of us have been telling a story to somebody and they haven't fully been listening, and so retrieving back in that instance, you know, that makes a lot of sense, though, and I think it's true. Like in all, all areas, you know, like, when to push that extra energy and when not to.
Speaker 2:Right, right, and that's where the wisdom comes in. That's where you know the idea of and what is wisdom. Wisdom is an awful lot of experimenting, right, because that's what life is so like. You want to tell your friends a bunch of stuff and they're talking about next Friday night and you keep pushing it and you're thinking to yourself, hmm, now that didn't work so well. Maybe the next time I'll have a little more patience, or maybe the next time or the next time. And that's where the meditation comes in. A lot of people think that meditation is about quieting the mind, about emptying the mind Somehow by slowing my breathing down, I'm going to slow my thinking down, or something like that. But it's really not. It's really. Meditation is really taking the time to notice the flow and then notice how you deal with the flow and whether it was helpful or whether it wasn't helpful, and maybe making those little adjustments. Do you do any yoga?
Speaker 1:I do.
Speaker 2:So you know, tree stance, of course right.
Speaker 1:Yep.
Speaker 2:Okay. So when you look at somebody in tree stance they look so stable, right, they look like they're just perfectly, you know, in tree stance, just like a good tree. But if you look at their foot you see it's all these little adjustments, it's out of balance in balance. Out of balance, adjustment, little adjustment, adjustment, adjustment, a little adjustment, adjustment. So I love that kind of metaphor, thinking about the way life is, because if you can be so well connected to life so that you're always making little adjustments, you never get to the point where you have to make big adjustments.
Speaker 1:That's cool, I like that. That makes sense and I agree. So many people think meditation is supposed to be like this quiet. You're not thinking of anything, and I don't take it as that. You know, have you heard of a man named David G?
Speaker 2:No.
Speaker 1:He's a meditation type teacher and I did an online workshop with him and he talked about how like meditation isn't? It's not that you're not going to have any thoughts. You know, three different things can happen, one of them being you have thoughts, you experience stillness or you fall asleep. And any of them could happen. You know, like, even like I've had people say to me like I fell asleep during a meditation. It didn't work out the way it was supposed to Like, but maybe that's what your body needed. It needed that rest, and you finally felt okay to do it it.
Speaker 2:You know, you at peace or at ease or, or you know, like a lot of times, you know, my students will say that you know I fell asleep. So you know you, I might say that, depending and depending on the situation, but I'm saying so, you know, were you sitting in a chair? Yeah, yeah, and were you resting against the back of the chair? Yeah, so well, maybe the next time move forward a couple of inches in the chair so that your back isn't resting against the back of the chair. Just do that and that that'll keep. I promise you. That will keep you from falling asleep and that will keep, I promise you that will keep you from falling asleep, that's a little trick I had never heard.
Speaker 2:You know well, it engages a couple of muscles and those muscles might not be ones that are commonly used. So you know, you'll feel a little discomfort, your muscles get a little bit tired. So that'll keep you up. And you know the other thing about meditation. Well, I don't want to have to sit in that lotus position, you don't have to.
Speaker 1:You don't have to do that.
Speaker 2:But one of the things about meditation is that a lot of times people say, well, if I itch, can I scratch? Am I allowed to scratch? If I'm meditating and I have an itch, am I allowed to scratch? I said, yeah, you're absolutely allowed to scratch, but before you scratch, maybe hang with the itchiness a little while. You know, like. First you notice that you got an itch right and you say, oh, it's like right here under my right arm and on my side here. So ask, then you'll notice it. And here's where the meditation is. What does it feel like? Where is it feeling?
Speaker 2:But what you really can notice about the itch the most is your desire to want to scratch it, desire to want to scratch it. You know, if you don't scratch it right away, you will notice your desire to want to scratch it. And if you can hang with it a little while longer, you'll notice that that desire to want to scratch it grows and grows and it gets stronger and stronger. And if you can just hang with it a little bit, you start to notice what it feels like to have desire to want something, the sensation of wanting something. And then you know when, if the sensation is strong enough and you just can't resist anymore. You go ahead and scratch it and then go back to your meditation. That's fine. But in the meantime you began to get connected to the physical sensation of wanting something and maybe, you know, getting connected to that sensation, sometime down in the future you might want something that you can't afford, and then you'll notice that the desire of wanting it starts to grow. You start to make reasons and rationales why you can't afford it.
Speaker 2:Well, I don't have to do this because I'm wanting it and I'm wanting it more and more. But because I did that experiment and I became familiar with what wanting feels like, I can then notice oh, here is that sensation of wanting. It's no different from the wanting to scratch. It's the same feeling. Wanting a new car and wanting a scratch is exactly the same feeling. So if I can practice managing my wanting with an itch, it gives me the skill of managing my wanting with the material possession. So in this little experiment, you know, of just sitting and noticing what's going on with me, I start to notice more and more about myself. And the more that I notice about those sensations, the more skillful a manager I become of my sensations. So, instead of being run by my sensations, I actually learned that I'm not my thoughts, I'm the creator of my thoughts, and that is where the magic happens.
Speaker 1:I love that, would you say? Wanting and desiring something, whether it's the itch or a new car, relates to resistance and resisting that desire.
Speaker 2:So what you resist persists. So if you have an itch, you will quickly find that trying to not have the itch is impossible and the more you want to not have the itch, the itchier it becomes. It becomes. Resistance is counterproductive because it gives energy to the wanting, it feeds it. It's like the wanting is a little brat, like a little bratty kid. The more energy you give it, the more bratty it becomes and the more it. The more energy you give it, the more bratty it becomes and the more it bothers you. But what you resist persists. But what you can be with will let you be and generally you know it's another skill that you know just noticing your physical sensations and noticing stuff about yourself. You start also to build up the skill of letting things be. And mostly you know, you start with your thoughts. Okay, most of us are in our thoughts, we live in our thoughts, we are our thoughts. You know.
Speaker 2:You see somebody who got a haircut and you don't think the haircut was a good haircut. It didn't look good on her, right. So you get a judgment oh, that was a shitty. Excuse my language, I'm sorry. That was a lousy, that's a lousy haircut. Or that dress doesn't look good on her. Or you know why is he letting his underwear show on top of his pants?
Speaker 2:And you have all these judgments, right, and you're inside them. And the moment you have the judgment, you are the judgment. You know there's nothing you can do about it. Right, you see the guy walking around and his pants are halfway down his butt and his underwear showing. And you've got a judgment. You already know this person, you know everything that you need to know about him, your judgment's all there. You've got him pegged, you know, and there's nothing you can do about it because you're inside of it. It's like a fish doesn't know that it's in water. That's where it is, okay. So what we do when we meditate, we actually start to notice our thoughts and eventually, just by kind of watching our thoughts I mean we even say it in language right, what do we say? Say, oh, I had a thought. Right, that's common, you said it right.
Speaker 1:Oh.
Speaker 2:I got this idea, I got an idea, right. Well, who is it that's having the idea? And if you say I have an idea, then you're not the idea, you're having the idea. So who is the I that's having the idea? You're having the idea, so who is the I that's having the idea?
Speaker 2:So when we meditate, we start to watch our thoughts, not like they're us, but like they're things that we have. It's not us. You step outside it and then, after you spend I'm talking a couple of weeks, 10 minutes a day. It doesn't take years, it doesn't take a long time, you just spend a little time watching your thoughts. All of a sudden you realize that your thoughts ain't nothing. You can't hold them in your hand, you can't sell them, they ain't worth anything, you can't trade them away, you can't get a discount on a car for one of them. They're nothing, they're little electrical impulses that float through your brain.
Speaker 2:And then you realize, wow, man, my whole life has been driven by these nothing things, these things, things. I don't know where they come from. And then they're here for a minute and then they go away and, like you know, they're like clouds floating through the sky. Here's a thought, and you think it. For you know, here's a thought. Oh, I wonder if I left the stove on. Oh yeah, and I, and oh, I can't, yeah, I got to get paprika on my way home and I shouldn't have said that to this guy, and blah, blah, blah.
Speaker 2:And all these thoughts. I mean, what are they? They're nothing. When you meditate and you spend a little time with your thoughts and that's what meditating is it's not having a quiet mind, it's spending time with your thoughts. When you start to spend a little bit of time with your thoughts, you start to realize that you are not your thoughts and that you are the creator of your thoughts. You get a little bit deeper into it with a little bit more, you start realizing that most of your thoughts are the product of a lot of the conditioning that's gone on in your life, of a lot of the conditioning that's gone on in your life, a lot of the things that your mom and your dad told you were right and wrong.
Speaker 2:What society tells you I mean especially what society does to women is talk about crimes. It's a crime. You know, I mean from the time. And you tell me if I'm right or wrong here. Okay, I don't want to sound misogynistic. You tell me if I'm right or wrong here. Okay, I don't want to sound misogynistic. You tell me if I'm right or wrong, that little boys are always asked the question what are you going to be when you grow up? And little girls are always asked the question who are you going to marry when you grow up? As if, like you, can't be something on your own. Am I a little bit right?
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's changed a little bit, right, yeah, it's changed a little bit. It's gotten a little better over the years. Like I'm 28 and I will say, like, fortunately, I've had people ask me like what I wanted to be when I grew up. But I also had the same, the same question of like who do you think you're gonna marry? What type of guy do you want to marry? Like what do you? What do you want him to do? What do you want going to marry? What type of guy do you want to marry? Like what do you? What do you want him to do? What do you want him to? Yeah, yeah. So I'm at that, yeah, yeah. Oh, when, when are you going to start having kids is a big right, right, right.
Speaker 2:So all of those messages you know they go into your database and eventually they get lost down there. Eventually they come up not as somebody else's ideas and thoughts but as your own thoughts. They become a part of you. When you get told long enough that you're not complete until somebody with you, if you get told that often enough and long enough, then you start to believe it's true. And what we find in meditation and this is what I love about seeing my students break free from the conditioning is when they start to realize. Can I say the BS word? Am I allowed?
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Okay. When my students and when I see in their logs, they go, I can't believe this bullshit that I've been thinking. You know all these crazy thoughts that I've been thinking about myself. This stupid committee in my head is telling me I'm not good enough and I'm not enough and blah, blah, blah and all that and saying I should have done this and I could have done that. And that's all bullshit, man. And when they start breaking out of that and they start finding out that I can make myself into whoever I choose I want to be, that's when I get my enjoyment from the teaching that I do.
Speaker 1:I want to backtrack a tad. I'm not sure if you remember this, but I'm just curious if you noticed a difference in practicing law once you started practicing Taoism versus before.
Speaker 2:Sure oh yeah, oh, yeah, oh, absolutely. You know when you're in a trial setting, you find that you feel your way through the trial a lot more than think your way through the trial. You know when it's time for an objection. You're not thinking, oh, that's hearsay, you're on your feet objecting already because you just feel it ain't right. You just don't feel it's right. And if somebody's saying something and it doesn't jive or their facial expressions are not consistent with what they're saying, you feel it more, you sense it more. And the reason for that is that when you spend time with yourself, you know you get to know yourself a lot better. And by knowing myself a lot better, since I'm a human being, if I know myself a lot better, I know human beings a lot better. And since you're a human being, if I know myself better, I'm going to know you better. I'm going to be able to recognize and connect with you on a deeper level, simply because I'm more aware of what it means to be human. So, yeah, so it makes a big difference, a big difference. But where it really makes a bigger difference than in trial is in the meetings and the conversations that I had with my clients, because it's more authentic being me.
Speaker 2:You know, we feel vulnerable. A lot of us have kind of like this imposter syndrome. You've heard of imposter syndrome and I tell you I still, for me, I still have that. I still think that I fooled a law school into accepting me and I tricked the bar examiners into licensing me. And if they only knew who I really was, if they only and that's the thought that so many folks have if people only knew who I really was. And so we, somehow we have this feeling and a lot of it comes from the Well, I mean, even if really good parents at some point they were going to get mad at you at some point. They've been about to walk out into the street and they came screaming out of the house and yanked you out of the street because they didn't want you to be run over. But you didn't know and somehow you just felt they were saying you're a bad person and that goes into your psyche.
Speaker 2:And you know, we're left with a lot of that negativity.
Speaker 2:We also are left with some positivity and that doesn't get in our way, but we put this mask on, you know, to try to protect that part of us that we think is kind of ugly and we spend a lot of folks I notice a lot of, especially those folks who I dealt with, you know, who have committed crimes. They have such a negative feeling about themselves that they have to put this mask on and they spend a lot of time and a lot of effort supporting that mask. And that takes a lot of effort. And when you can get to the place where you can say, hey man, I am what I am and I is what I is and I'm Popeye the Sailor man 2-2. And what you see is what you get, and I ain't perfect and I'm flawed, and this is who I am, take it or leave it. If you get to that point, all of a sudden you realize you don't have to hold the shield up anymore. A lot more energy in life, but I'm kind of getting far afield here.
Speaker 1:Okay, so you started to discover yourself more, so that's how you were able. Yeah.
Speaker 2:One of the things that I committed to when I started dealing with the poor folks, representing the poor folks, ones that couldn't afford a lawyer one of the things that I committed to is I and that's one of the reasons I went back and got my master's in social work, because I wanted to break them out of the cycling of getting arrested and rearrested and that whole revolving door thing.
Speaker 2:And I found out a couple of things that if you listen to somebody, there's three things that I wanted my clients to get from me. One, I wanted them to feel like they were heard, so I listened to them. Second thing, I wanted them to feel like they really had somebody who was going to fight for them and was in their corner. Somebody stood up for them, no matter what them, no matter what. And third, I really wanted them to understand why whatever was happening to them was happening to them. And I really concentrated on those three things. And I'll tell you something, amanda even today I live in a small town and even today there are times when somebody will come up and say Mr Martin, you probably don't remember me, but you represented me, and that was the last time I ever got in trouble.
Speaker 1:That must make you feel amazing.
Speaker 2:Oh pat, pat.
Speaker 1:I really love that, pat, pat, I really love that. You know it's. I've seen a lot of that myself, different experiences I've been involved in like the divorce, family law and I've worked in group homes, and so even the troubled adolescents and you're seeing them go through the system and it's the repeat offenses is pretty common, you know, and so that is so powerful and you notice that those made a difference.
Speaker 2:Oh yeah, just just listening to somebody makes a difference. I tell you a quick story. I tell you a quick story One time in Miami I was representing a guy and most of your audience is probably too young to know what the Marielle Boatlift was. But when President Carter was president, he gave permission for people to go to Cuba across from the Florida Straits and pick up their relatives and bring them back. And if you saw the movie Scarface, that's how Al Pacino got to Miami. There was this big influx and what Castro did was, at gunpoint, he forced all his mental patients, criminals, onto these boats and forced people to bring them all back to Miami. And so Miami had this influx of criminals and crazy people and it was really nuts for a while.
Speaker 2:Anyway, I was representing this one guy that was a political prisoner in Cuba and he went and he committed a whole bunch of robberies four different bars, about 15 different victims with a gun, armed robbery. Anyway, I worked out a plea with him for 12 years that he'd be eligible for parole in 12 years. And he goes no, no, but I speak Spanish. So I was like no, yo no voy a hacer esto, I'm not going to make any deals with the state. I don't believe in the state, the government. They're corrupt, I'm not going to make any deals with them. Because he was thinking about Cuba and being a political prisoner there. And so it was a really good deal, because without that deal he would probably do 60 or 70 years. And so I said, jose, don't worry about it, I tell you what we're going to do. And so I listened to his whole story about being a political prisoner.
Speaker 2:We went out into the courtroom and prosecutor was over there and I knew who the judge was. And I said, judge, we're not taking the deal from the DA. I pointed at him. I pointed at him I'm going to have to tell him, because we think they're corrupt and we think that they're the devil's work. And I just I started.
Speaker 2:They're looking at me like what is this guy?
Speaker 2:Is he crazy? And the judge is trying to figure out what am I doing? And it's everybody's like mouth is open. And then I said to him judge, and they offered us 12 years and we're throwing it back in their face and we're throwing ourselves on the mercy of the court. And like, well, the judge finally figured out what I was doing. So he says, well, ok, I'll take it and what I'm going to do is I'm going to sentence him to 12 years, so just gave him the 12 years. It was the exact same thing that I worked out. 12 years it was the exact same thing that I worked out, but because I listened to him and because I stood up for him as crazy as his request was, I stood up for him and I listened to him and I effectuated his request he shook hand and he walked out of that courtroom off to jail for his 12 years, with his head up high, you know, and feeling like, yes, somebody heard me. So that's how important it is, you know, for people to feel like they were heard.
Speaker 1:I want to transition to Chad. What would you say? Tapping into your breath has helped you with the most.
Speaker 2:There is a meditation practice called Tonglen T-O-N-G-L-E-N Tonglen and it is really powerful. And so the way that you practice Tanglen is if you're suffering about something, you've lost somebody you love, your dog has died, or you have a friend that's suffering, or you're thinking about the world that's suffering, and you consider this suffering, you imagine it as a dark, oily, black cloud and you breathe in this black cloud and you take it into your lungs and you envision and you imagine that your lungs and your heart are purifying this and you breathe out healing. You take in suffering and breathe out healing and you just practice that breathing with that in mind. What you don't know is that inside of your brain, your brain, is actually building neural pathways that would be the same neural pathways as if you were actually helping somebody out of their suffering. So you're building neural pathways that make compassionate, give you the ability to tolerate somebody else's discomfort and to be present with them. You know you build up a strength of compassion, and so it is a practice. So like, for example, what the difference it made for me personally is I used to hate to go to funerals.
Speaker 2:I hated to go to funerals because I never liked. You know, I was uncomfortable. I never knew what to say. A person has just lost their loved one, I can't comfort them. I didn't know what to say. I always felt fidgety, et cetera. Felt fidgety, et cetera.
Speaker 2:After practicing Tonglen and working with my breath and using that, I can now, whenever somebody I'm always going to funerals now, when somebody I care about, you know, and I'll just go over and I'll sit with them and I say just want you to know that I'm here and I'm. You know it's still uncomfortable, but I can tolerate the. I have the strength to tolerate the discomfort. Now, and and and and people. It makes a difference to folks. You don't have to say anything or say the right thing or, you know, come up with something brilliant. All you just need is just to sit with them and be present. But it's the ability to tolerate the discomfort that the breathing this particular practice gives you.
Speaker 2:And Thich Nhat Hanh also talks about walking, meditation and imagining that every time you put your foot on the ground, that you leave behind yourself a footstep of peace and loving kindness. Imagine if you just were to walk around the block, imagining that every time you put your foot on the earth, it was a healing touch that you left behind yourself footsteps of peace and loving kindness. It actually changes your brain. It actually rewires your brain. It makes you a more loving and kind person and people notice it. And, like I say, you ask how it makes a difference.
Speaker 2:When people came in and talked to me and they're sitting across the desk from me, they really got it, that a difference. When people came in and talked to me and they're sitting across the desk from me, they really got it that I cared, wow. And I guess the good news inside of it is that you can learn to do this. A lot of people say, well, I'm not very caring or I'm not very comfortable, nobody is, nobody is. But you can learn and cultivate compassion. You can build up your compassion muscles.
Speaker 1:I've never heard anybody say it helped them be able to attend funerals. But it makes so much sense, you know, because you can tolerate the discomfort more. But wow, that's fascinating to me. You know because I'm somebody who's never really had that hard of a time attending funerals. But it makes a lot of sense, you know, like the discomfort, they're not knowing what to say and actually one of my best friends was talking to me about this, like he doesn't go to a lot of them because he doesn't know what to say to people he sends, like a card or something. But it's like you can learn that skill, you know.
Speaker 2:I love that.
Speaker 1:I love that. Wow. Did you know? Have you always believed that you could learn these skills?
Speaker 2:No, no, no, no. I grew up in an amusement park and my folks were in the popcorn and cotton candy business. You want to talk about a rough group of people. You got the guys who put the, you know. You got the guys who put the rides up and you got the guys that put the games up and you got the guys that wrap it up and put the tent up. And you know it's a rough group of folks. You know that lovey dovey kindly. You know tree hugging stuff. You know that ain't part of that life.
Speaker 1:I get that, but I, I love. I love how you mentioned you can learn it. You know. I think so many people say it like, even to me. You know, because I'm a breathwork facilitator on all social media. I call myself the breathing goddess. People are like I don't know how to meditate. I can't learn it at this age. You started young Cause. Like people look at me I look younger than I am. They're like're, like I can't start at this point. What would you say to somebody who thinks they can't learn to meditate or they can't learn to tap into this?
Speaker 2:well, I say you, you meditate all the time, but you just don't know it. Right, when you say when? How many times has it been that you're talking to somebody? And even as you're saying something, you kind of know that it's not going well, right? I mean, you've had that experience. Right, you're saying something and even as you're saying it, you're kind of aware of the fact that either what you're saying is mapping on really well or it's not right. So that's meditation, that's meditation. So that's all meditation is. Except all you're doing is saying I'm going to be intentional about it, I'm going to do that, the same thing I always do. I'm just doing it on purpose, not by accident.
Speaker 2:See, most of us meditate. You know, when you're driving along in your car, right, and you're lost in a fog of rumination and projection and you're thinking about, you know your mind's going blah, blah, blah, and I gotta do this, I gotta do that and I should have done this, and and the car drives you home, right, right, it's like muscle memory the car, the car, dry, and then you're home, right. So now you're driving along, but another car gets a little bit too close to you, right, and all of a sudden you're attending to the situation. Now, right, right, you're really, it's got your attention One moment. You're living in the fog. The next moment you were attending to something. Right, well, that's meditation. That's all we do in meditation. We just say I tell you what? Let's say that we're going to pay attention to this candle. I tell you what? Let's say that we're going to pay attention to this candle. So, in 10 seconds, in three seconds, your mind's going to go running off and you're going to get lost in the fog. But at some point, because you said to yourself, I want to pay attention to this candle, it's like there's this little whisper that comes up and says, hey, you said you were going to pay attention to the candle and you're not paying attention to the candle, right? And so you go, oh, okay, and then all of a sudden, you get all these judgments oh, I really am screwing up, I'm doing it lousy, and da, da, da, da. And then eventually, all that stuff goes away and you pay attention to the candle again. That's meditation. Everybody does it. We do it all the time. The only thing different about meditation is that every day, you decide I'm going to put five minutes aside and I'm going to do exactly that on purpose and I got to say it really helps to have a coach.
Speaker 2:Now see the way that I teach meditation. It's a very, very special way and, first of all, it was developed at Duke University the way that I was taught to teach meditation. Nobody's going to do that. Nobody's going to spend 30 minutes a day for two years sitting on a cushion Nobody's going to do that. Nobody's going to spend 30 minutes a day for two years sitting on a cushion Nobody's going to do that. But at Duke University we say how can we teach meditation to Westerners? So they developed this app. Okay, now a lot of people, when they say they want to learn meditation, they say, well, I'll go get an app and I'll learn it from an app. But like you do yoga, right, you can learn yoga from an app, but it ain't like having a coach, right, it ain't like having a coach. So what they did at Duke is they developed an app and they combine it with the certified teacher.
Speaker 2:So the way that I teach meditation, we meet for an hour and a half once a week and we talk about what's getting in your way, what's happening in your life, and I teach you one, two different ways to meditate and there's 40 different. There's cong len, there's body scan, there's belly breathing, there's all these different kinds of meditation. I teach you a couple of those and then you go home for the week and then all I'm asking you is 10 minutes a day, 10 minutes. You get up, you turn on the app, say today I'm going to do breath aware and there's a guided meditation on the app and it takes you right through it. It gives you a couple of minutes at the end to play with the instructions. Then here's where the magic happens when you finish your 10 minutes, a little log pops up and it says what was that like for you? And you get to dictate or type into it. Oh, that was a really terrible time. There was dog barking and it really distracted me and I got really pissed off and I didn't even meditate at all and that's what you put on your log and that's you put on your log.
Speaker 2:I get up at 4 o'clock every morning because I got 15 students on campus and every morning they give me a log and I go through and I answer every single log and I might say back to them, I might type back. Well, you say it was terrible, but I don't say it was terrible. Look, first of all, you noticed what it feels like to be distracted. Second, you notice that getting distracted pisses you off, and so I'm going to ask you what did it feel like when you were pissed off? Where did you feel it in your body? I asked them all these questions right about asking them just to be more aware. That goes back to their app and then the next day, before they do their next 10 minutes, they've already got my feedback.
Speaker 2:So every single day I get to coach them, every single day, and within two weeks, all of a sudden I start seeing in the logs oh, now I understand what you were telling me. Oh, now I get it. Wow, I'm really not my thoughts. Oh, I had this thought today and it was really bothering me, but then I thought, oh, it's just a thought, and it went away. And I'm getting all these logs like that.
Speaker 2:I get a log that says wow, I've been living here for two years and I just noticed there are crickets outside my window. I get a log that says I came back from school today and it's a really lousy day and I couldn't do my homework, so I figured I'd do my 10 minutes instead. So I did my 10 minutes and then, after I did my 10 minutes, I could do my homework. So I get the and I get to say that wonderful, that's great, and what was it? Then I get to ask push them a little, what was it about the 10 minutes that got you to a place where you could do your homework? What happened? What changed? Just like you're asking me questions, I'm asking my students those questions every day, and so inside of a couple of weeks, they're getting so much data about themselves they don't even recognize themselves anymore.
Speaker 1:That's amazing, no, and I think the feedback is really good, even, like, like anybody can do anything on an app, whether it's yoga, whether it's breathwork, whether it's meditation, but like that interactive piece, like there's a different layer to it.
Speaker 1:You know, like I, I I tell people all the time like I host group breath work, but a group breath work session is very different than a one-on-one breath work session with me. You know, like we're getting, we're getting to the like, to the root. You know more a deeper layer, you know, and that that feedback, that back and forth, you know, like, even whatever it is like, I am into fitness as well and I have a coach for that and I use an app for that. But, like, even at the end of the app, anytime I do a workout, it asks me to weight and there's like a scale how it was easy, like somewhat easy, moderate, hard, and like I'm weight all these different things one to five, and like the coach can see that, you know, and she tells me her thoughts and we, we chat about it, as opposed to just because, again, it's not much intention there. It ties all back into that. If you're just checking the box, you know.
Speaker 2:Yeah. So imagine if you had your group came together once a week and you gave them some breath work to do, and then there's 10 people in the group say and you do your group thing. And groups are cool because everybody you know gets to share and they find out that the same stuff that's happening to them is happening to everybody else too Makes them feel a little better. But then they go on their way. And then if every day you got a little bit of feedback from them and were able to communicate with them during the week, how much progress could they make in a week? So Duke, duke, beautiful Duke, put that all together and they created the whole thing, and now they just teach us how to use it. We get certified according, you know, in their school, and then we can use that whole digital infrastructure.
Speaker 1:It's just amazing. It's beautiful. And when did you do that? When did you go to Duke University?
Speaker 2:I didn't go to Duke. I took the certification in Duke. I was 2016. 2016.
Speaker 1:2016. It was a two-year-long course.
Speaker 2:Oh no, that two-year-long thing. That was back in 2002. No, the Duke training, because I already had a 10-year meditation practice. They could teach me how to use the app and train me in their method in one, two, three-day weekends, but that's because I already had a 10-year practice. You can't get certified as a KORU teacher unless you have already been practicing for many years and already have a practice date. You have to go through this big interview process and now you said 2002. That was when I went through the two-year thing. Now, the two-year thing, I was able to practice. I was still a lawyer. Then I had to sit 30 minutes a day and then we had to go to four week-long retreats every year for two years. You know I was able to do it while I was doing everything else in my life so you'd meditate for 30 minutes a day.
Speaker 1:Is that what you were doing? Today, today I meditate between 15 and 30 minutes every day and even back then, when you discovered this, this program you were doing, they were.
Speaker 2:They had 30 minutes a day that you did uh, when I, when I did that two-year stint, I'd say I was probably doing maybe between 5 to 15 minutes a day, you know, but but steadily. You know the. The trick is not how long, it's consistent. You know Sharon Salzberg, one of the great teachers. She often says meditating is not hard, it's not Remembering. To meditate is hard. That's so true, that's so true.
Speaker 1:Has anything helped you to remember?
Speaker 2:I never. I never could get a consistent practice going until my coach said well, why don't you do it in the morning? Because I was trying to do it, you know whenever. And then I, I, I. I came to the conclusion that I own the morning. I own the morning. I own it. Now, once the day starts, the day owns me. I got very little control about what's going to come at me during the day. All I can do is respond to it. But the morning I own the morning.
Speaker 2:I'm up at 4 o'clock every morning and I sit, I take my dogs to the park, I watch the sun come up, I do my morning affirmations, I have my coffee, I respond to my students. By the time my wife gets up at 7 or 8 o'clock, I got half the day in already and then I'll work till. You know, generally my class is over 12, 1 o'clock and by 2 o'clock in the afternoon I'm done. I'm done for the day After that. It's just. You know I like. Here's the secret. I'm going to tell you something I never tell anybody. Ready, ready With all my touchy-feely, tai chi, kung fu, wisdom and everything else. I love war movies.
Speaker 1:You love war movies.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's my favorite kind of movie. I relax the most when I can watch a war movie.
Speaker 1:Why is that I don't most when I can watch a warm room? Why?
Speaker 2:is that? I don't know. I just maybe it's one good way to get a wall out of the box.
Speaker 1:I don't know I get that, but so doing it in the mornings helped you Absolutely.
Speaker 2:Okay, the mornings helped you Absolutely. I think that if you look at anybody that has a good, consistent practice, I think there's a lot of folks that do their stuff Joggers, you know. There's a lot more people that jog in the morning, A lot more people that go to the gym in the morning. I think that I think that if you're, whatever it is that you're going to do whether it's puzzles or crossword puzzles or jogging, whatever if, if you find a time that you can commit to, that you can own and you can stay consistent.
Speaker 1:That's so key. I I think morning is a big thing, you know, for a lot of people because, like you mentioned, the day is going to throw stuff at you, like regardless of people's situation, like life just has a way of life and you know, as the day starts, you know, like I'm always been an early morning person myself, I used to wake up at 3 am. I started toning that back a little bit, but you know that's a little bit, but you know that's a big difference. You know it's a it's. It's a big difference because, like, once the whole world is up, you're hearing from other people. Other things are happening. You know whether, whether you drop the kids off at school and like one of them, whatever it may be, you know just life happening. You know where is even up you, you know where is even up you mentioned your wife's not even up yet. So like there's people even in your house that are not going to be needing you, even little things, you know.
Speaker 1:I own it, I own it, you said it. You said it perfectly. Now I'm curious have you ever struggled with not wanting to meditate or resistance with it?
Speaker 2:Oh yeah, Sure All the time.
Speaker 1:And how do you get up?
Speaker 2:Lots of times I get up. Well, you know, after you know, after a while, you know you realize that not wanting to meditate is just another thought, it's just a thought. Wanting to meditate is just another thought. It's just a thought. I mean, I lost 100 pounds. How did I lose 100 pounds? Because saying I want to eat something is just a thought, it's just another thought. You wait five seconds, it goes away.
Speaker 2:I just finished writing a blog called the Five Second Miracle. I just finished writing a blog called the 5 Second Miracle. And so it's like, if ever there's something that gets in your way that makes you want to do something that's not helpful to do, just count down from five Go. Five, four, three, two, one, and generally the thought's gone, it's gone. So you know, like, oh, I don't want to write that blog today because I just don't want to say I don't know what I'm going to say. I don't know how to get started. You know, I've got so many other things to do. I don't know what I'm going to say Five, four, three, two, one. Okay, where's the paper? Where's the pencil? All right, let's go.
Speaker 1:Have you heard of a woman named Mel Robbins?
Speaker 2:No.
Speaker 1:So she has something very similar to that called the five-second rule. She wrote a book, the five second rule. She wrote a book, the five second rule. Like in whatever that you don't want to do or you are hesitating to do, like even getting up in the morning, something as simple like she would hit the alarm, hit the snooze button and she started counting backwards from five and before it would get there, she would just do the thing right.
Speaker 2:well, maybe that's where I got it. Maybe that's because somebody told me about it, so that's where they probably got it from. It sounds like it's the same thing.
Speaker 1:It makes so much sense, though, now, because, changing that thought again, everything is just a thought. Oh my gosh, I love that, Wow Well, thank you, I love that, wow Well. Thank you so much for speaking with me.
Speaker 2:Oh, thanks for having me. I really appreciate it.
Speaker 1:So any final words for the listeners, no pressure, I do just like to give it back to the guest.
Speaker 2:Well, I would say this A lot of people ask me how do I get started? Where can I read more, everything else? So my website I put together a couple of free e-books that are downloadable for free. One of them is what is meditation? What is it not? Is it for me? How do I get started? So I put together a little 40-page e-book on that. How do I get started? So I put together a little 40 page ebook on that. I've got like 56 gigabytes of videos and instruction sheets and all kinds of stuff.
Speaker 2:So if there's more than you can ever use. So I would say, if you're interested in meditation and you know, I mean, of course I offer my classes and if you want to sign up for a class, you're more than welcome to. But I'm not sending you there for that. I'm sending you there because there's plenty of resources that are free on my website and it's a great place to start your exploration. You want to explore the idea of? Is this something you know for me? Then I would really say go to my website. It's awiseandhappylifecom. Awiseandhappylifecom. You can find out more about me. I've written a couple of books. They're there. The most important is those free downloadable e-books. Just click on it and download them and it'll give you resources, send you in directions, tell you what the best apps are, tell you what books to start reading. All that stuff.
Speaker 1:Awesome. Thank you so much again.
Speaker 2:You're more than welcome. I'm happy to be here.
Speaker 1:And thank you, guys, for tuning in to another episode of Breathwork Magic. Thank you for tuning in to breathwork magic. I hope today's episode inspired you to connect more deeply with your breath and embrace the transformation that it can bring. Remember, as long as you have your breath, you have options. You You're not stuck. You can make a change, you can make a shift. Each inhale is a new beginning and every exhale is a chance to let go of what no longer serves you.
Speaker 1:If you enjoyed the episode, it would mean the world to me. If you shared this with a friend, left a rating or review. Your support helps more people discover the magic of breathwork and the incredible transformations it offers. If you're ready to take the next step, I encourage you and I invite you to join me every Monday evening, virtually for a Mindful Mindset Monday, a virtual pay, what you can breathwork session where you can reset, recharge and refocus. All of the information is in the show notes. Until next time, keep breathing, keep shifting and keep embracing the magic with inside of you. I'm proud of you, I'm rooting for you and you got this.